The Creation of Whiteness

[Louis85]

This guy has quite an insight on the New Orleans situation.

http://www.redroom.com/video/tim-wise-creation-whiteness-clip

[Louis85]

Wow, no response from the intelligentsia of this board. I'm not sure how to take that. Coz? Mistress? Wheel? Ether? Liz? Anyone?

[Harmeister]

I watched it, thought it was quite insightful actually.

Mr. Coz and Chief were probably in conniptions, so they didn't respond.

[Mistress M]

Sorry, Louis, haven't been around as much cause of moving, just watched the video...

The ideas he's talking about aren't new, although he articulates them very well. You should check out a book by David Roediger called "The Wages of Whiteness" which was the ground-breaking bbook which talked about the development of the idea of whiteness in the working class community.

Overall, his argument is the classical Marxist one which is that race is only an issue to mask the real issue which is class. And I completely agree with this. There are more poor people than wealthy people, but dividing us by culture/ by race/ etc. is the best way to keep the population down, prevent revolution.

[ElizabethX]

Absolutely. I've been saying that for a while and didn't know it was Marxist.

[pmFan]

I can't get it to play. Busy week at work and they block streaming video... Now at home I can't get it to play (goes to first 2 seconds and freezes). :(

[Twisted.Mellow]

Wow, no response from the intelligentsia of this board. I'm not sure how to take that. Coz? Mistress? Wheel? Ether? Liz? Anyone?

Well, I don't no how Cheef, pmFan or Wendie etc feal, but I feal verie unintelligentsia...

[pmFan]

Shut down other apps and it finally worked.

Interesting perspective... I never looked at it from that angle.

[Cozmo D]

Sorry, Louis, haven't been around as much cause of moving, just watched the video...

The ideas he's talking about aren't new, although he articulates them very well. You should check out a book by David Roediger called "The Wages of Whiteness" which was the ground-breaking bbook which talked about the development of the idea of whiteness in the working class community.

Overall, his argument is the classical Marxist one which is that race is only an issue to mask the real issue which is class. And I completely agree with this. There are more poor people than wealthy people, but dividing us by culture/ by race/ etc. is the best way to keep the population down, prevent revolution.

Co-signed.

[Etherspin]

it seems on point as far as I've watched ( it locked up at about 1/2 way) - with my limited knowledge of American history..
as I personally havent read anything on the specific topic I found it very interesting and insightful

[filmwizdaddy]

I GUess with my reputation around here I better not comment. Um, Insightful

[Etherspin]

Well, I don't no how Cheef, pmFan or Wendie etc feal, but I feal verie unintelligentsia...
you need to do a better job of sounding pretentious if you wanna be invoked like that or for a quick fix you could make a new avatar in which you have a monocle

[Louis85]

Well, I don't no how Cheef, pmFan or Wendie etc feal, but I feal verie unintelligentsia...

I didn't mean to leave you and the rest of the people on your list out, sir, except for Chief. I short-sightedly listed the people on the board that I expected to respond to this type of topic. I view all of you as intelligentsia--except for Chief.

My bad.

[Chief]

Pipi Longstocking is freakin hot...i sooo want to yank her hair........................

[Louis85]

C.

[Twisted.Mellow]

Pipi Longstocking is freakin hot...i sooo want to yank her hair........................

Werd.

[Twisted.Mellow]

I didn't mean to leave you and the rest of the people on your list out, sir, except for Chief. I short-sightedly listed the people on the board that I expected to respond to this type of topic. I view all of you as intelligentsia--except for Chief.

My bad.

'Scool. Just shit stirrin' :D

[wendyful04]

THIS IS HOW YOU "SHIT STIR", MY FRIEND:


Russian Marxists' perspective:
In the ideology of Bolsheviks, intelligentsia is not a real class; its status is described by the Russian word "prosloyka", which is normally translated as "stratum," but in this context bears a deteriorative nuance. In other words, intelligentsia does not have a "real" place in the structure of the society: it is a midlayer between "toilers" and "exploiters". Intelligentsia grows by means of "recruiting" from among the people of labor, but its produce, i.e., the produce of its intellectual labor is just a sort of goods ordered and paid by the exploiter class. Hence its independence is a mere ideological illusion, and in fact intelligentsia is by large a class of "lackeys" of bourgeoisie and landowners. While de facto being an exploited category, en masse it lacks the revolutionary drive. Ironically, this theory was put forth by the representatives of intelligentsia itself, notably Vladimir Lenin and Leon Trotsky among many others. In particular, Lenin is famous for his caustic remark that "[the] intelligentsia is not the 'brain of the nation', it is the 'shit of the nation'".

[Mistress M]

Russian Marxists' perspective:
In the ideology of Bolsheviks, intelligentsia is not a real class; its status is described by the Russian word "prosloyka", which is normally translated as "stratum," but in this context bears a deteriorative nuance. In other words, intelligentsia does not have a "real" place in the structure of the society: it is a midlayer between "toilers" and "exploiters". Intelligentsia grows by means of "recruiting" from among the people of labor, but its produce, i.e., the produce of its intellectual labor is just a sort of goods ordered and paid by the exploiter class. Hence its independence is a mere ideological illusion, and in fact intelligentsia is by large a class of "lackeys" of bourgeoisie and landowners. While de facto being an exploited category, en masse it lacks the revolutionary drive. Ironically, this theory was put forth by the representatives of intelligentsia itself, notably Vladimir Lenin and Leon Trotsky among many others. In particular, Lenin is famous for his caustic remark that "[the] intelligentsia is not the 'brain of the nation', it is the 'shit of the nation'".


This is the truth. :rock: Welcome to why I left the academy.

[Cozmo D]

Fukkin Commies... :squint:

[Wheeljak]

Overall, his argument is the classical Marxist one which is that race is only an issue to mask the real issue which is class.
I say "nay".
To state that Tim Wise's viewpoints on race and class are necessarily Marxist in nature is like saying that the Golden Rule is necessarily Biblical.

Besides, that, FUCK KARL MARX, and FUCK FRIEDRICH ENGELS! Both of these men were staunch racists who, using Darwin's theories to justify their beliefs, held the opinion that black people were lower on the evolutionary scale than whites, and by extension, were unfit to carry the "people's revolution," beyond serving the role of cannon-fodder.

[Mistress M]

You can't condemn theorists for being a product of their time. Marx and Engel had revolutionary ideas that have affected our world. That's like saying we should throw out evolutionary theory because Darwin was a racist. We can't throw the baby out with the bath-water.

Wise's views draw on the 1970's and 1980's revolution of historiography which directly stemmed from using Marxism as a paradigm for examining history. Prior to this historiographical revolution, historical studies were typically confined to the examination of elites and elite culture. The earlier works who started this new trend of examining non-elite groups (including slaves, women, the lower classes etc) will directly cite Marx and Engel as the justification for doing these kinds of studies. After awhile, people stopped needing to cite these authors as justification as it simply became self-justifying as the stuides became more accpeted in the historical profession. However, Wise is drawing on this tradition, basing his arguments most likely on authors such as David Roediger who first blantantly linked the creation of race with class oppression.

[ElizabethX]

You can't condemn theorists for being a product of their time.

I disagree!

[wendyful04]

You can't condemn theorists for being a product of their time.....

....so long as their theories evolve with maturity and knowledge gained.

[ElizabethX]

I'll condemn anyone I want to condemn.

[ChrisLDog]

I'll condemn anyone I want to condemn.

:eek::clap::clap:

[wendyful04]

I'll condemn anyone I want to condemn.

Hopefully, this is a mature and knowledgeable decision.
noooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

[pmFan]

Hopefully, this is a mature and knowledgeable decision.
noooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!
:rotfl:

[ElizabethX]

I'm not sure what's up with the last two responses, but Chris has the right idea.

[pmFan]

What's not to get? I was laughing at Wendy's post... :haha:

[ElizabethX]

You two can kiss my ass.

[pmFan]

Does that mean you are going to post a pic for me? :clap:

[Wheeljak]

Does that mean you are going to post a pic for me? :clap:
And bootay-pic begging makes its ignominious return to the PM Dawn Forum.

[wendyful04]

And bootay-pic begging makes its ignominious return to the PM Dawn Forum.

robot